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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:12 am


cruisin_man wrote:LOL - what is "heinous" - is having to pay almost $120 for inferior products, that could be duplicated for less than $20. P T Barnum said it best tho . . .

apples and oranges.... or rather grapes and watermelons...
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by GMarsh » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:17 am


Hmmm lets see it costs Sony $1500 to manufacture a 52" Flat Screen LCD Television why couldn't they charge less than $2900. Why is that some people seem to have issues over $500 business entry points with the potential to make thousands, when in a traditional brick and mortar or franchise business you have to invest thousands and in some case hundreds of thousands and gree that you may not show a profit for 5 years?

My original response to your calling SOC a money game because of your observation that there was only $62 of commissionable product. Again this is incorrect and you reiterate my numbers below the fact is there is retail value and there is profit the company shares the profit of all those items. Hence MLM business model the company can share the profits with the affiliates, just like Sony has to share the profits with advertisers and middlemen dealers etc. Could they Sony and SOC charge less sure they can, but that means less profit.

There just seems to be this mentality with some out there it should be free or better yet low entry and the ability to retail a product to create substantial residual incomes, the numbers just don't add up.

It's kind of depressing that someone in our business says they are not trying to bash but your response to my response seems to only make my point even more is that you are bashing SOC.

This is a business just like any other business however in this case the MLM model was used to share the profits with the affiliates.

Successfully yours,




apia wrote:Using your numbers, $59 Annual System + $49 Host TER + $125 Guest TER + $99 System Supplements + $62 Points totals $394. Subtract that from $457 and you are left with $63. I know they pay out more than $63 in initial bonuses. The entry level bonus used to be $140 for the sponsor and still more passed upline. How do you pull, say, $200-250 out of $63? Out of company profits or course! Couldn't they just charge less? Yeah, they could if they wanted to.... but out the window go the fast start bonuses... and what will attract the business-builders?
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Brent_W » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:27 am


apia wrote:
GMarsh wrote:Can you explain the above? Again I see this as a bash unless again I am not understanding something?

Successfully yours,

Using your numbers, $59 Annual System + $49 Host TER + $125 Guest TER + $99 System Supplements + $62 Points totals $394. Subtract that from $457 and you are left with $63. I know they pay out more than $63 in initial bonuses. The entry level bonus used to be $140 for the sponsor and still more passed upline. How do you pull, say, $200-250 out of $63? Out of company profits or course! Couldn't they just charge less? Yeah, they could if they wanted to.... but out the window go the fast start bonuses... and what will attract the business-builders?

I started SOC as a wholesale customer and then thought I could retail it on the side. I could but found that I couldn't increase my entry-level commissions without sponsoring other distributors. Okay, so those are the rules but it's clear that SOC's priority is on the entrepreneur side not the retail side.

THIS IS FINE. I have no dilemma with it but for some to pretend that there is not a design for quick profit motive for the representatives is disingenuous on the part of some critics here-- not you particularly. As I said earlier, where is one willing to shine his/her flashlight...

In fact, they used to chant the same "Sell 3 and yours is Free" that is being found so heinous with 1000AW. That is beyond ironic.

I hesitated in even going into this because I do have a great respect for SOC, but it doesn't wear a halo where other companies sport a hangman's noose.


Hey Richard,

I can explain how they do this quite easily....

Companies who do coded bonus systems spend a lot of time running
models on how they payouts work. They have to figure a certain
percentage will never do anything, a certain percentage will hit every
bonus, and then everyone else falls in-between.

Using this model they know exactly how much to fund in to those
accounts they use to pay out the bonuses (and with the company I
had experience with, that was usually a separate account for holding
funds than a monthly commission account).

I know SOC probably does not have a big of a problem with this as my
previous company did, but there were so many people not hitting any
of the bonuses that the bonus account would accumulate quite a bit.
The company would use that money to offer extra bonuses and incentives,
such as double bonuses of a certain type.

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:53 am


GMarsh wrote:Hmmm lets see it costs Sony $1500 to manufacture a 52" Flat Screen LCD Television why couldn't they charge less than $2900. Why is that some people seem to have issues over $500 business entry points with the potential to make thousands, when in a traditional brick and mortar or franchise business you have to invest thousands and in some case hundreds of thousands and gree that you may not show a profit for 5 years?

My original response to your calling SOC a money game because of your observation that there was only $62 of commissionable product. Again this is incorrect and you reiterate my numbers below the fact is there is retail value and there is profit the company shares the profit of all those items. Hence MLM business model the company can share the profits with the affiliates, just like Sony has to share the profits with advertisers and middlemen dealers etc. Could they Sony and SOC charge less sure they can, but that means less profit.

There just seems to be this mentality with some out there it should be free or better yet low entry and the ability to retail a product to create substantial residual incomes, the numbers just don't add up.

It's kind of depressing that someone in our business says they are not trying to bash but your response to my response seems to only make my point even more is that you are bashing SOC.

This is a business just like any other business however in this case the MLM model was used to share the profits with the affiliates.

Successfully yours,

Hey George, you seem to be missing all the places where I say I don't have a problem with the SOC business model. You also seem to have missed, according to Tom and Terry, that I am in an overpriced program! :D

I used the term "money game" because that's what Tom and Terry were slandering my business with. I was only seeking to point out that there are more similarities than they were willing to shine a light on... much less point up.

In fact, I posed it as a question rather than a charge in an attempt to get them to reveal the similarities so I didn't have to. I don't think I'm bashing SOC; I'm just analyzing the numbers in the same fashion that some are analyzing the numbers of my company. I've known this about SOC for years; I've never started a thread about it. But when I feel unfairly pushed, I will push back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My point was simple. All companies (Sony, SOC, 1000AW, insert Any Company) could do it for less... but then it would be harder and success for all less likely. Business is about making money. How much is "too much" is up to the individual.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Tsnyder » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:03 am


apia wrote:
Tsnyder wrote:And, Richard... I had it figured out years ago.

Tsnyder

Wish you nothing but success; I'm just tired of having my character and intelligence attacked.


Attacked? Nah... that's paranoia. Questioned? Absolutely.

I'd say if you want people to stop questioning your decisions
stop promoting BS deals. Seems pretty simple.

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Tsnyder » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:17 am


apia wrote:I used the term "money game" because that's what Tom and Terry were slandering my business with. I was only seeking to point out that there are more similarities than they were willing to shine a light on... much less point up.

In fact, I posed it as a question rather than a charge in an attempt to get them to reveal the similarities so I didn't have to. I don't think I'm bashing SOC; I'm just analyzing the numbers in the same fashion that some are analyzing the numbers of my company. I've known this about SOC for years; I've never started a thread about it. But when I feel unfairly pushed, I will push back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


As usual, however, your analysis falls short of reality and reason.

You want to compare the cost of buying goods and services in
the initial start up package to the ongoing cost of your product.

Obviously a false comparison to even a novice businessperson.

Comparing the products straight up reveals the true nature
of the $1K deal. You ask people to pay $1508 per year for
something that is readily available for less than $100 per year.

SOC sells a product for about $1 that is readily and commonly
for sale in retail stores for $3 to $5 for products of comparable
quality.

Head to head comparison of the cost of products easily reveals that
one of these companies has a product that is in demand and priced
below market value while the other offers a product that is in demand
while grossly inflating the price to fuel their money game.

Anyone who is a licensed professional or carries the letters MBA
behind their name should be able to see the difference at a glance.

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by GMarsh » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:21 am


apia wrote:I used the term "money game" because that's what Tom and Terry were slandering my business with. I was only seeking to point out that there are more similarities than they were willing to shine a light on... much less point up.

I've known this about SOC for years; I've never started a thread about it. But when I feel unfairly pushed, I will push back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



I was not really following the thread, I do searches of SOC. Regardless so you admit to "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." mentality to question SOC's and labeling it a "Money Game" when its not as a means of defending your business? I know nothing of your current business, don't want to know. Why can you not simply argue your points based on the merits of your current business instead of bringing SOC into your defense?

In fact, I posed it as a question rather than a charge in an attempt to get them to reveal the similarities so I didn't have to. I don't think I'm bashing SOC;


Yes you posed it as a question and I answered it with the facts, yet you seem to still see it as a money game? In fact you said everything has warts? Is this correct understanding? For the life of me can not see how you can say your not bashing?

Richard it just concerns me when people admit they didn't join something with the intention to fully engage in it, then call fowl when they realize the income potential is somehow not the same. I quote you, "I joined SOC because I wanted to use the product. Then I thought that I could retail the product." and "I started SOC as a wholesale customer and then thought I could retail it on the side."

Successfully yours,
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:44 am


Tsnyder wrote:As usual, however, your analysis falls short of reality and reason.

You want to compare the cost of buying goods and services in the initial start up package to the ongoing cost of your product.

Obviously a false comparison to even a novice businessperson.

Anyone who is a licensed professional or carries the letters MBA behind their name should be able to see the difference at a glance.

Tsnyder

Not really. I've always known and acknowledged here that SOC is one of the few if not the only company in this industry that delivers on the promise of a comparable product for less cost.

I'm just pointing out that the "padding" you see in $1000AW is present in SOC... and every business. Are you going to deny that? Does it really matter? The cost of any start-up package is the cost of entering business so it is a factor. SOC also has hidden costs. Can't send a card without postage, so the $31 autoship turns into (on average) $75/month out-of-pocket when you add postage for 100 two-point cards. So in reality, it is going to cost everyone $75 per month to use their SOC product and you get paid on only $31 of that. Obviously, SOC gets none of that money either but it is still a legitimate business expense and so is a factor to consider.

Maybe it is just as simple as the fact that someone can afford $29/week more than they can afford a one-time $457 then $75 per month. IIs it wrong to avail them of that opportunity?

Since when is being able to manage your bottomline and get into profit a terrible thing?

You cannot just compare everything to the single best feature of SOC and dismiss them when they fall short.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:54 am


GMarsh wrote:
apia wrote:I used the term "money game" because that's what Tom and Terry were slandering my business with. I was only seeking to point out that there are more similarities than they were willing to shine a light on... much less point up.

I've known this about SOC for years; I've never started a thread about it. But when I feel unfairly pushed, I will push back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



I was not really following the thread, I do searches of SOC. Regardless so you admit to "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." mentality to question SOC's and labeling it a "Money Game" when its not as a means of defending your business? I know nothing of your current business, don't want to know. Why can you not simply argue your points based on the merits of your current business instead of bringing SOC into your defense?

In fact, I posed it as a question rather than a charge in an attempt to get them to reveal the similarities so I didn't have to. I don't think I'm bashing SOC;


Yes you posed it as a question and I answered it with the facts, yet you seem to still see it as a money game? In fact you said everything has warts? Is this correct understanding? For the life of me can not see how you can say your not bashing?

Richard it just concerns me when people admit they didn't join something with the intention to fully engage in it, then call fowl when they realize the income potential is somehow not the same. I quote you, "I joined SOC because I wanted to use the product. Then I thought that I could retail the product." and "I started SOC as a wholesale customer and then thought I could retail it on the side."

Successfully yours,

I don't know where I called foul; I just decided it wasn't for me when I could see no way of increasing my retail profits or over-rides without sponsoring others so I moved on.

Again, money game is a term introduced by Tom, I believe. Are my facts wrong? If they are, then that might be bashing. If it is, I'll delete and or correct them. I'm just pointing up some things that are being ignored in my opinion.

SOC is a great company. I sold a wholesale package last December and spent hours helping a CPA learn how to use it.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:07 am


Tsnyder wrote:Attacked? Nah... that's paranoia. Questioned? Absolutely.

Tsnyder

Like these snide gems:

"... you are a smart guy, aren't you?"

"Are you mad at money? Do you have more than you need?"

"You don't want to deal with the tax problems created by the other $7K?"

"some cheesy website builder"

"low-rent $1000K deal... LOL"

"It's apparent you haven't learned much...."

"talking to a brick wall"

"This will be another on a long list of really bad choices you've made in this business."

"You will continue to align yourself with these kind of shady deals."

"... tells me everything I need to know about your business acumen."

"your analysis falls short of reality and reason."

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

And that's just in this thread! I only see a couple of mocking questions in there...
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Tsnyder » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:18 am


apia wrote:
Tsnyder wrote:As usual, however, your analysis falls short of reality and reason.

You want to compare the cost of buying goods and services in the initial start up package to the ongoing cost of your product.

Obviously a false comparison to even a novice businessperson.

Anyone who is a licensed professional or carries the letters MBA behind their name should be able to see the difference at a glance.

Tsnyder

Not really. I've always known and acknowledged here that SOC is one of the few if not the only company in this industry that delivers on the promise of a comparable product for less cost.

I'm just pointing out that the "padding" you see in $1000AW is present in SOC... and every business. Are you going to deny that? Does it really matter? The cost of any start-up package is the cost of entering business so it is a factor. SOC also has hidden costs. Can't send a card without postage, so the $31 autoship turns into (on average) $75/month out-of-pocket when you add postage for 100 two-point cards. So in reality, it is going to cost everyone $75 per month to use their SOC product and you get paid on only $31 of that. Obviously, SOC gets none of that money either but it is still a legitimate business expense and so is a factor to consider.

Maybe it is just as simple as the fact that someone can afford $29/week more than they can afford a one-time $457 then $75 per month. IIs it wrong to avail them of that opportunity?

Since when is being able to manage your bottomline and get into profit a terrible thing?

You cannot just compare everything to the single best feature of SOC and dismiss them when they fall short.


I'm starting to feel bad for you, Richard. It's beginning to look
as if you really don't know much about business and how to choose
a legitimate company so you just rush into whatever crap looks
good to you today and wait to see the fallout.

Postage? Hidden cost? Really? Are there people out there who don't
know you have to put a stamp on something in order to have the USPS
deliver it? Wouldn't that same cost apply no matter where they bought
the card?

That's stretching a long way in an attempt to justify what you're
doing Richard. Further, you continue to compare initial package
cost to your highly inflated product cost as if it were a legitimate
comparison.

The truth is, you know better and so do I. The truth is the only
amount anyone has to spend in order to become an SOC distributor
is $59. The rest is for the legitimate cost of other products and
services that are available. The fact that SOC pays coding bonuses
out of the profits from that purchase is in no way comparable to
the fact that you ask people to spend more than $1500 per year for
something anyone can buy anywhere on the internet for less than
$100 per year.

You then try, once again, to justify the whole thing by asking what's
wrong with people wanting to manage their bottom line and get into
profit... as if that justifies the money game.

Believe it or not, Richard, but I was once naive and ignorant of the
truth just like you. Do you know what that got me? That got me a
position as defendant in a lawsuit brought by state regulators.

If you achieve anything close to success with this deal it will likely
get you the same thing. The only question is will you be smart enough
to learn from the experience of others or will go go on blindly insisting
that something isn't what it obviously is?

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Tsnyder » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:29 am


By the way, Richard... your math is as faulty as the rest of your analysis.

Please show me how you arrived at "(on average)" $75 per month
when the postage is added.

Last time I checked we get 100 points per month ($31) if we're
on autoship. A standard 2 panel greeting card costs 2 points plus
the stamp so that would be 50 cards. I send Picture Plus cards
exclusively and so does nearly everyone on my team (because that's
what I've taught them to do) so that would be 33 cards.

Last time I checked First Class stamps cost 44 cents.

So... if I send 50 cards the cost of postage is $22. Add that to
the cost of the 100 points ($31) and the total is $53.

If I send 33 cards the cost of the postage is $14.52. Add that to
the cost of the 100 points (again... $31) and the total is $45.52.

Not sure where you went to school but where I did $53 and $45.52
is less than $75.

The great part of your faulty analysis is that either of those numbers
is substantially less than the $116 ($29 x 4 weeks) you ask people to pay
for something they can buy for a tenth of that price anywhere else.

Can you say money game? I knew you could!

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:38 am


Tsnyder wrote:By the way, Richard... your math is as faulty as the rest of your analysis.

Please show me how you arrived at "(on average)" $75 per month
when the postage is added.

Last time I checked we get 100 points per month ($31) if we're
on autoship. A standard 2 panel greeting card costs 2 points plus
the stamp so that would be 50 cards. I send Picture Plus cards
exclusively and so does nearly everyone on my team (because that's
what I've taught them to do) so that would be 33 cards.

Last time I checked First Class stamps cost 44 cents.

So... if I send 50 cards the cost of postage is $22. Add that to
the cost of the 100 points ($31) and the total is $53.

If I send 33 cards the cost of the postage is $14.52. Add that to
the cost of the 100 points (again... $31) and the total is $45.52.

Not sure where you went to school but where I did $53 and $45.52
is less than $75.

The great part of your faulty analysis is that either of those numbers
is substantially less than the $116 ($29 x 4 weeks) you ask people to pay
for something they can buy for a tenth of that price anywhere else.

Can you say money game? I knew you could!

Tsnyder

My mistake was simple. I had the 200 Points in mind that we have been discussing with regards to the start-up package in mind rather than the 100 PV autoship.

Your tortured and elongated effort to demean me is just way beyond sad. Heart of darkness.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by cruisin_man » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:59 am


No sense in beating a dead horse.

I've come to the conclusion that if people can see something for what it is and still want to be suckered into it and sucker others into it that are just as suckerable (is that a word?) - then, so be it . . .

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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:24 am


Tsnyder wrote:I'm starting to feel bad for you, Richard. It's beginning to look as if you really don't know much about business and how to choose a legitimate company so you just rush into whatever crap looks good to you today and wait to see the fallout.

Like I need your sympathy? :lol:

Tsnyder wrote:Postage? Hidden cost? Really? Are there people out there who don't know you have to put a stamp on something in order to have the USPS deliver it? Wouldn't that same cost apply no matter where they bought the card?

One of the selling points about SOC has always been the low monthly requirement... when in fact there is a secondary or hidden requirement to buy postage to be able to use your product.

You say no one forgets? I know they do. I "lost" a big company anniversary mailer last Fall (about 2000 pieces) because the marketing lady FORGOT to include the cost of postage when she presented the bid to the company decision-makers. Now she's a professional at what she does but if you want to insult her too, I guess I can't stop you.

Nevertheless, rather than go back and correct her mistake, she re-directed them to a local print shop. Of course they then had to deal with all the responsibilities of fulfillment.You can always find someone to print it cheaper, but signing, and addressing and first-class stamping has to be done-- which is where SOC really shines.

Another way to avoid buying all those stamps is to use some of your points on over-priced (JMHO) gifts.

Tsnyder wrote:That's stretching a long way in an attempt to justify what you're doing Richard. Further, you continue to compare initial package cost to your highly inflated product cost as if it were a legitimate comparison.

It's not stretching to say "different strokes for different folks." It's stretching to disallow that.

Tsnyder wrote:The truth is, you know better and so do I. The truth is the only amount anyone has to spend in order to become an SOC distributor is $59. The rest is for the legitimate cost of other products and services that are available.

How many of those have you sold? Why do people not take it more often? Is there a profit motive there? Sell 3 and Your System is FREE.

Tsnyder wrote:You then try, once again, to justify the whole thing by asking what's wrong with people wanting to manage their bottom line and get into profit... as if that justifies the money game

I thought the purpose of being in business was to make profit....

Tsnyder wrote:Believe it or not, Richard, but I was once naive and ignorant of the truth just like you. Do you know what that got me? That got me a position as defendant in a lawsuit brought by state regulators.

Sorry you had it rough but that is no excuse to take it out on me personally. I notice you didn't even acknowledge the disparaging remarks you made in this thread but pretend that you didn't make.... just asking questions!
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Gery_D » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:08 am


cruisin_man wrote:No sense in beating a dead horse.

.


What? ...and ruin an age old forum tradition? :roll:

I've got an animated graphic for that but the ladies (and a couple guys) were disturbed by it so I won't use it this time.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Tsnyder » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:19 pm


Hey!! No sense beating horses. It's not their fault
some people don't know the difference between money
games and legitimate businesses... why pick on the poor
horses? (LOL)

Richard...

I'm not trying to demean you. I don't really care about
you one way or the other. I engage in these discussions
because LOTS of people read this forum. Many are likely
newbies who don't know the difference and could be tempted
to walk down the garden path with nonsense like the #1K deal.

Every time someone is promised the moon and receives nothing
our business suffers another black eye... which makes it just
a little more difficult for the rest of us to do legitimate business.

If you want to be one of those people be my guest but don't
expect me to cheer you on. It is people who promote the kinds
of crap you seem to latch onto on a regular basis that gives this
business the negative reputation many ascribe to it.

So... when that kind of crap comes on the forum I will be
happy to be part of the conversation.

I'm still wondering why you chose the $1K deal over the $8K deal
offered by the same guy.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:48 am


Tsnyder wrote:Richard...

I'm not trying to demean you. I don't really care about you one way or the other. I engage in these discussions
because LOTS of people read this forum. Many are likely newbies who don't know the difference and could be tempted to walk down the garden path with nonsense like the #1K deal.

Every time someone is promised the moon and receives nothing our business suffers another black eye... which makes it just a little more difficult for the rest of us to do legitimate business.

If you want to be one of those people be my guest but don't expect me to cheer you on. It is people who promote the kinds of crap you seem to latch onto on a regular basis that gives this business the negative reputation many ascribe to it.

So... when that kind of crap comes on the forum I will be happy to be part of the conversation.

I'm still wondering why you chose the $1K deal over the $8K deal offered by the same guy.

How does it serve the forum to weave personal insults into so many posts?

You don't engage in these discussions. You fail to engage the arguments I make and just continue to rip both 1000AW and me with name-calling and out-of-hand dismissal. Those are not the tactics of someone taking the high road.

BTW, this business has done exactly what it promised for me financially (as I noted in my FIRST POST), yet you still keep up this dirge about being promised the moon and being delivered nothing. That accusation you make is FALSE in my case. What say you to that? I bet more of the same.

You have every right to not engage in this business but you don't have every right to recklessly assert your biases in a vain attempt to "protect everybody" especially when those positions of yours are just smacked out of the ballpark by the FACTS as presented.

This business has worked exactly as promoted. Like all start-ups, it may or may not survive in the long run but it has some very good things going for it and, for me at least, it has delivered on every promise.
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by Craig_Mattice » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:43 am


Post deleted after further reflection.
Last edited by Craig_Mattice on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Craig Mattice
Living Life On My Terms! No Excuses, NO Regrets!
Choose Wisely in Life

http://www.aboutcraigmattice.com
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Re: "$1,000 a Week for Life Launch" June 21st, 2011

by apia » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:26 am


Craig_Mattice wrote:This "discussion" has amazed me in that an individual chooses to call SOC a "money game" utilizing fuzzy math and grossly clouded judgement to draw absolutely incorrect conclusions. In law we call that fruit of the poisonous tree.

I didn't call it a money game. I just showed how SOC's (indeed all) compensation plan(s) are constructed on the same principle to return more money faster within reasonable limits. Specifically, what incorrect conclusion did I draw?

Craig_Mattice wrote:Never before have I seen so much accurate, quality, factual, and supportable data legitimately provided to one individual, yet he continues with his absolutely incorrect conclusions.

Specifically what? Does SOC not pay out $200+ in fast start bonuses out of the ~$60 left over from the Ent Package?

Craig_Mattice wrote:There is an obvious lack of understanding of any basic business 101 model to determine the simple difference between an autoship and ancillary costs of doing business, any business. Specifically the comments regarding the postage stamp scenario.

I pointed up the difference by referring to it as a "hidden" cost. In fact, it is a mandatory expense unless you want to be "garage qualified" with points. One of the SOC selling points is the low autoship requirement. It's just the reality of the situation. It's not a bash or a slam because, in fact, those points are useless unless the postage is purchased.

Craig_Mattice wrote:To compound this alleged argument by bringing up personal reasons for all aspects of displeasure with SOC and their business model, linked to their lack of personal success, presents a B & M and whinny aspect of personal points any reasonable reader is forced to sit back and say, "Who cares?"

I stopped selling SOC actively when I realized that I couldn't increase my commissions focusing on selling rather than sponsoring. SOC does not reside on a pedestal. I simply brought up stuff that is real and true about that business to counter the criticisms, to show the similarities of the two models and to open the blind-eye-turned to some aspects of SOC. As I said good for the goose, good for the gander.

Craig_Mattice wrote:ll the years associated with this industry and MLM.com, I have learned to "listen" and take "action" when Tsnyder, George Marsh and Gery D speak on virtually any subject. To logically debate, discuss, and have a reasonable conversation is one thing, but to associate it to beating a dead horse falls grossly short in this instance. It lends itself more to a necropsy than a simple beating.

How did you feel about Terry's litany of insults? Is that appropriate or necessary? I also read every word those guys write on this forum.
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