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Do You Know Which Kind of Leader Your People Need?

Traveler woman searching direction with a compass on coastline near the sea. Point of view shot

Can you name the two types of leaders? Sorry for pulling a “there are only two types of people” on you. But, when it comes to leadership, there are two big umbrella categories that almost all good leaders fall under.

Each type serves a different purpose. No doubt, you’ve met them both:

There’s the flashy one up on the stage and the no-nonsense one behind the curtain. But who are they, and what real value do they bring to the table?

Nancy Tobler PhD joins Kenny once again to discuss the historical theories that have shaped leadership strategies over time and the current theories that help our organizations stay organized and reach for new heights.

Listen in to learn:

  • How can you, as a leader, do better and get more out of your followers?
  • What kind of nice guys actually finish first?
  • How do some jerks get love and loyalty out of their followers?
  • What strategies are effective (and ineffective) when one of your followers is a jerk?
  • Which type of leader is more critical to organization survival?

The answers might surprise you.

Full transcript

Kenny Rawlins: Welcome to The Podcast. I’m your host, Kenny Rawlins. Today we’re continuing our ongoing series with Nancy Tobler about engagement—particularly employee and distributor engagement. Hello Nancy.

Nancy Tobler: Hello how are you.

Kenny Rawlins: Good.

Nancy Tobler: Good.

Kenny Rawlins: And today we’ll be talking about leadership. Obviously, leadership is something that’s talked a lot about in the MLM space. And this is an area that you’ve studied and researched with your background in organizational communication.

And so, let’s start by having you give us a little bit of a definition of what leadership is and the history behind the research on leadership.

Nancy Tobler: OK so I think it’s fascinating that really the military does a lot of research. And they’re really the ones that started the research on leadership, at least in the United States, in the 1930s.

How do powerful leaders get people to follow them?

Nancy Tobler: So, the late 1930s, you see the rise of Hitler. I don’t know that we want to compare ourselves to Hitler, but the reality was people wanted to understand… Well and Roosevelt…

What is it about these people that makes them powerful leaders? How is it they get people to follow them?

So, you really get in the 30s and 40s this idea that people are born leaders. It’s a trait you have. It’s like eye color or hair color.

So, then the 50s come along and we get this idea that it’s not necessarily that you’re born with it. We know people who were shy who become leaders. So, it can’t be something you’re born with. It must more be about what behavior you do.

Ok that makes sense to us. Right?

And you can have a very quiet leader who’s very good. You can have a very buoyant boisterous person who is also an effective leader. So, it’s about behaviors not about traits.

Then in the 70s… I kind of blame the hippies for this. Well… Blame’s not the right word. But I kind of credit the hippies for this. But we get what’s called a “contingency approach.” And that’s the idea that the way you lead is directly based on who your followers are.

Working with a jerk? Tailor your leadership.

Nancy Tobler: So, one of the best leadership positions I think you can ever be in is to be a leader over people who are competent and motivated because you don’t have to lead them at all. You just set out the goal and they do it. They don’t need much of handholding.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: They just do it right.

The other end of that spectrum you have people who are very immature and those people you have to tell them what to do. And you can do very little sort of social support because they’ll take advantage of you if they see you as a nice person.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: I always used to tell student teachers you go in tough. Go in tough. You can always soften up, but you can’t get tougher. You got to start off tough.

Kenny Rawlins: When you used the word “mature,” you used “competent” and “motivated.”

Nancy Tobler: Right.

How do you identify maturity in your followers?

Kenny Rawlins: And what defines how mature a person is? Or how do you gauge that as somebody trying to lead a group of people?

Nancy Tobler: Well. So really, I would define “mature” as people who take responsibility for their own behavior. Right?

We used to say in the academic world that it’s about age 21. But now they’re saying it’s about age 23. So, it’s happening later. We don’t know why exactly.

Some people like to blame the internet. I’m not sure it’s internet’s fault.

Parents have a huge role and maybe we’ve babied… As parents maybe babied more than we used to.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: I don’t know. Who knows why.

But about age 21 you stop blaming outside people for where you are and your circumstances and you start to take responsibility. So, to me [a mature person is] someone who takes responsibility.

But Hersey and Blanchard are the people who came up with this contingency approach. Or at least those are the ones I’m most familiar with. And they say the mature follower is competent, which means they know what to do. You don’t have to tell them. And they are willing to do what they know what to do. So, they’re motivated. So that’s how they define a “mature” person.

Kenny Rawlins: OK and you’ve got to gauge your leadership style based on how mature somebody is.

Nancy Tobler: Yeah that’s what the contingency approach says, which I buy into. It makes sense, right?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

You can’t lead everyone the same way!

Nancy Tobler: You can’t lead everyone the same way. I don’t know…

As a parent, you’re a young parent so you might not see it yet, but you can’t lead a child the same way. They all come with a different rulebook, but you don’t get access to the rulebook till you’ve figured out what’s wrong.

Kenny Rawlins: And it evolves, right?

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: As somebody who’s a parent to a pretty young son, he… The way that we lead him or parent him morphs as he gets older.

Nancy Tobler: Absolutely.

Kenny Rawlins: And yeah. Motivations and punishments have a different effect.

Nancy Tobler: Right. Absolutely. And they can see your weak side. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: So, it’s really tricky because you got to show that social side as a parent but that’s a whole other podcast we could do on parenting skills.

Now that my children are almost all out of the house, I can talk about parenting. When you’re actually parenting you know you know nothing. You know nothing.

Transformational vs. day-to-day leadership

Nancy Tobler: So really the last leadership theory which we’re still discussing today—I just read a recent meta-analysis—is transformational leadership.

And it came out in the 80s, about 1985. A guy named Bass came up with this idea that there is this charisma. There is this emotional connection.

So, from there that’s sort of the history. That’s where we are today. I thought we could talk about two main kinds of leadership: day-to-day* and transformational.

*Day-to-day leadership is sometimes referred to as “transactional leadership.”

Day-to-day leadership is the bread and butter

So, what I like to say is you have to have a day-to-day leader. You have to have somebody who makes sure the product gets shipped, who makes sure the product is ordered, who makes sure that the meetings are scheduled and held. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: Someone who keeps track of what’s going on. Everybody needs that person and that person serves as a leader.

Lots of times it can be someone who never steps in front of the audience but does the leadership behaviors. Right? So day-to-day person does two things:

They do “task” and they do “social.”.

And “task” are things like: they make sure the goals are clear, they make sure that people know what their roles are, they make sure that the needed resources to accomplish your goals are available to you. They’re also good at holding discussions and making sure that various people get their voices heard. Right? Those are all effective leadership techniques that happen with a day-to-day leader.

And then they do “social.” And this is all that warm fuzzy stuff that can get dismissed as not important but it’s crucial!

If you don’t care about your followers, they can tell!

Nancy Tobler: People will work for you if they think you care. And just I’m just remembering a study done on teachers.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: And people were asked to name their favorite teacher and then talk about what they were like. It didn’t matter whether or not the teacher was hard or easy. The person was listed as a good teacher because they believed the teacher cared about them.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: Right? So, this… The “I care about you” has to be shown.

It’s that little chit chat that happens at the beginning of meetings. “How’s your mom. I know she just got put in a nursing home.” Or whatever. Right?

It’s all of that.

They not only care about you, but they care enough to know individually about the people that are of their followers.

  1. So, the second type is transformational.

And not all organizations have transformational leaders. You can run an organization on that day-to-day leadership and just keep plugging right along.

Transformational leaders push you to new heights

Nancy Tobler: There’s no reason for you to have transformational [leadership] until you hit that change. And then the transformational leader can really make a difference.

So, they have several characteristics. And really the definition of a transformational leader is they can get people to do beyond what they expect that they can do.

So, they push people to new heights. Right?

We all want that. Right? We all want ourselves to be pushed to new heights as well as other people to be pushed to new heights. Right?

That is the direct selling industry. Right?

You have these women—75 percent in the United States are women—really training each other to push to new heights.

I think a lot of women come into direct selling because they aren’t sure they can do another business.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: Right. And there’s all this mentoring that goes on in direct selling.

So, it’s just incredibly powerful to watch these women become entrepreneurs.

Now they don’t all become entrepreneurs, but we get a pretty good rate at which they become salespeople and those salespeople have skills they probably didn’t have before: They know how to talk to people; They know how to organize their life; They know how to organize goals; They know how to set goals and reach goals.

Things they didn’t know they didn’t know even.

Kenny Rawlins: So.

Nancy Tobler: It’s really powerful. Right?

How do jerks get love and loyalty?

Kenny Rawlins: So, this is kind of more of what seems to me like the stereotypical leader in that, like you say, they help you accomplish something more. I mean, am I right in thinking…

Who. What are some examples of people?

Like… Steve Jobs? What was Steve Jobs?

Nancy Tobler: Well so, Steve Jobs did some pretty powerful leadership in the positive direction. He also had sometimes when he didn’t do well.

So, I haven’t I haven’t really studied his leadership style. From what I can remember he wasn’t always loved by his followers. Is that true?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah and I guess that’s… My question is:

Is a transformational leader someone who’s always loved? Or somebody who gets you to do more than you thought you could accomplish?

Nancy Tobler: So, an amazing thing happens. Right?

If you get me to do more than I thought I could, I like you.

I might resent you a little bit. And I might say to people he’s a bit of a pain in the butt. But…

Kenny Rawlins: There’s loyalty to that person.

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: That goes back to what you were saying with the teachers. Right? Is that it’s not about whether they were hard or easy, It’s kind of about…

I guess that was different because you were talking about whether they care or not…

Nancy Tobler: Yeah.

Kenny Rawlins: But if…

Nancy Tobler: But we like people and we think they care about us if they help us accomplish new tasks. So, they’re really intertwined. Right?

Getting an organization to change is no small feat

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. OK. But the transformational leader this is where you’re saying that you can go on without that person but to clear huge obstacles that’s where you really need a transformational leader.

Nancy Tobler: You got you’ve got to have them.

You’ve gotta… I think… I have studied a lot in health care too. And one of the articles I just never got around to writing but I felt really strongly about is you have to have a physician champion to change the technology.

Doctors don’t want new technology. They don’t want it….

Well they actually like technology as long as it helps them do medicine. But they don’t want it to do records—electronic health records. They don’t like that.

They feel like they’ve turned into a secretary.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: So, but if you have a physician champion, somebody who’s really that transformational leader, you can get it to work in an organization.

So, I think the same is true in all organizations. You get someone who sees the vision. (We talked about this whole thing just as one whole podcast.) Transformational leaders see where the future is. And they might even move the goal a little as it becomes clear to them. But they still are always projecting that goal out there.

We’re all about “transformational”

Nancy Tobler: So, we talked I think about Shaklee from the 50s. Right?

He saw the world as being cleaner. Right? So, he came out with products that didn’t hurt the environment. Way before it was an environmental issue and people talked about environmental things, Dr. Shaklee Came out with… I remember my mother buying dish soap and laundry soap that didn’t have phosphates in it if I remember right.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: So that’s a vision. He saw something we didn’t even know we were going to be so tied to in 2018. Right?

I buy products now that are organic or are fair trade. Right? All because I care about the environment.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Right? So, he saw this place we would be in 2018 way before. So, they—[transformational leaders]—have that vision.

“Transformational” is a synonym for adaptive!

Nancy Tobler: They also can adapt. So, the vision doesn’t have to stay solid.

I think sometimes people think about [transformational leaders] “they just have… univision and they only see one thing.”

That’s not true.

They’ll go along in a direction and they’ll say we’re moving towards this vision and then they’ll say, “I have new information and our vision needs to change just a little bit.”

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: And they’ll march people in a new direction. Right? Sometimes it’s a more extreme direction. Sometimes it’s a less extreme direction. All the same they say, “we we’re still going towards this goal.” But they adapt.

Amway adapted!

Nancy Tobler: I like to think of Amway and I don’t know if we talked about them on any of our other ones. But you know, in the 70s, they got really hammered by the FTC.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: Well they survived. They’re an 8-billion-dollar company. I think they’re number one [among direct sellers].

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: So, they adapted. They did the 90 percent rule. Right? You can return up to 90 percent of your product. You have to sell your product before you can buy more—so get rid of garage qualifying. And you can… What’s the other one? I thought there were three.

Kenny Rawlins: Oh yeah.

Nancy Tobler: I’m trying to think of it.

Kenny Rawlins: I can’t think of it now but yeah.

Nancy Tobler: They adopted rules that the whole industry has now. Everybody has these same rules. They made rules that said, “OK you have a problem with us having people who are garage qualifying buying more than they can sell? We’ll change.”

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: “We’ll fix it.”

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: And they did.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: And they got people to follow them. It’s this a huge change. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Herbalife adapted!

Nancy Tobler: Well think about Herbalife. I wasn’t sure where Herbalife would be after their battle with the FTC.

Has it been two years now or maybe two and a half?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. Or more. Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: They’re OK. They’re OK. Right. They just added coffee.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: And that was good thinking. Coffee is like a 43-billion-dollar industry in just China alone.

Kenny Rawlins: Wow.

Nancy Tobler: Something like that. It’s a horrible number. I probably made that number up.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah that’s okay. Gives us the idea.

Nancy Tobler: It’s this huge number of people who buy coffee.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: But Herbalife did really well. Right? They were given this sort of restrictive thing they needed to do, and they changed their compensation plan. Now I’m not privy to what they did but we know that they had to change it so that it was easier for you to get compensation.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: And that their model is what I would call an old school model that came around in the 70s or 80s.

And you had to have a lot of group volume, if I remember right, to get any compensation. Which means… Are they garage qualifying?

Kenny Rawlins: That’s the question, yeah.

Nancy Tobler: That’s the question the FTC has. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Yep.

Nancy Tobler: “Are you forcing these people to buy products that they aren’t really going to use?”

And so they had to change their compensation plan to put consumers into it, to make sure people are actually trained (if I remember right)…

Kenny Rawlins: Yep.

Nancy Tobler: …And change the compensation plan so it’s easier to get compensated.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah, they made a bunch to adjustments.

Nancy Tobler: I don’t know what they are… I don’t know how they do it.

Kenny Rawlins: But they’re doing fine.

Nancy Tobler: But they’re doing fine.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Their stock price is fine.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Their revenues are up.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

What will you do in the face of a crisis?

Nancy Tobler: You have to adapt. And I think that’s… Or handle a crisis. Is the thing I was trying to say.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah because with that, you didn’t just have the FTC you also had Bill Ackman shorting them big time.

Nancy Tobler: Oh yeah and he short sold? Was that what it was?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. And so, I mean he was coming after them and honestly I think if you were a betting person… I don’t know that between the FTC and Ackman you know mounting such a campaign against them… Yeah, I don’t know that you would have said they’d be doing fine almost all the way through 2018.

Nancy Tobler: Yeah. I think that’s a powerful example of you’ve got to be able to adapt to the environmental change, but you’ve also got to handle a crisis that pops up [when] you weren’t expecting it.

Can you become a leader?

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. So, you talking about that back in the 30s they viewed it as something you’re born with or not born with—leadership that is—but then it does sound like as we’ve researched and learned more about it. We believe people can change and can develop leadership skills.

Nancy Tobler: Absolutely.

Kenny Rawlins: So, I guess.

Nancy Tobler: Otherwise education doesn’t matter.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. So that’s my question is for people who are listening and want to know how to be better leaders or are concerned about the leadership in their organization. What… What’s the message out there for them and how do you go about [learning] that.

How can you do better as a leader?

Nancy Tobler: Well I guess I would I would go back to: People need to get things accomplished. People need to get things done. Every organization has stuff it does.

We write software. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: Here at InfoTrax.

So, you have to get the product done. It has to get deployed. Organizations have to get up and start using it. If those things don’t happen, you’re not an organization very long. Right?

Kenny Rawlins: Yep.

Nancy Tobler: But you have to remember that people need to know you care about them.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: There’s lots of ways to do that and maybe we’ll do a whole podcast on relationships. I don’t know.

But the other thing is: transformational leadership is about really that vision.

And seeing individual people in your organization seeing them as individuals but then working with them as a group.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: “I know some of them don’t have public speaking skills. So, I’m going to work with them on public speaking. We’re gonna practice it.” Whatever. Right?

I’m thinking about a woman who’s trying to get a downline of distributors under her working harder.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: I’m going to listen to them I’m going to find out what they want, what their goals are. And then I’m going to say “here’s my goal. Here’s where I think we can be.” Right? “And here’s how I think you can get there.”

So, I recognize that all people can’t be led the exact same way. I’ve got to understand where they are. I’ve got to listen to them.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: But then I also have to take control and step up and point us in a direction and get us moving to that direction. Get us seeing ourselves as bigger than we are.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: I mean, you can watch TED Talk after TED Talk. You can watch them, and they have pretty common characteristics. Right?

They tell stories. Well effective transformational leaders tell stories. They do.

They have facts. You need to have some facts about how things work. Right. That kind of thing.

So. So there are some things you can do to become a better leader. And one of the things you want to do is to recognize your own capabilities and then see which ones you need to work on before you step into that circle.

Get a mentor!

Nancy Tobler: But a mentor is a huge thing. Somebody who’s made it, who will take you under their wing…

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: That that’s huge. Think about here even at InfoTrax, right? Being taken under the wing and then moved up.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: It’s a pretty common characteristic.

Kenny Rawlins: But I think that that is one of the things that you see that is appealing about network marketing or MLMs.

You’ve got people who… yeah, your upline or other leaders in the organization have an opportunity to mentor you and to help you rise up.

Nancy Tobler: Yeah.

Kenny Rawlins: Interesting.

The MLM world is brimming with powerful visionary leaders

Nancy Tobler: Yeah. So, I was thinking of another couple of transformational kind of leaders and that is Trades of Hope. It’s one we’ve had on the podcast in the past.

They have entrepreneurs, right, distributors. That’s cool. We’ve talked about that.

But their product line is to create micro entrepreneurs in various places around the world, to give women and men a chance to move out of poverty. Right? They buy their artisan crafts and resell them here in the U.S.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: So, I just bought two pairs of earrings for Christmas from them. And they send you with the product a little story about the artisan because this is not just about leading distributors to sell a new bottle of shampoo or a new fancy drink.

Their organization has this vision that they can change the world one little micro entrepreneur at a time. Right?

That’s a vision you can get behind.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Right. It’s pretty powerful.

The other one I was thinking about as a transformational leader is the woman from Solar Sister, Katherine Lucey. She saw a need.

And the really cool thing about her—you learn on that podcast with her—is they do training on the product, they do training on the business (how to keep track of what you’ve sold and who you’ve sold it to and who needs a return—all that sort of stuff), and they do what they call “agency training.”.

They have designed into their training—into the whole thing—this idea that “we’ll change you. Being involved with us will change you. You will see yourself as more competent, more capable than you’ve ever thought before.”

Kenny Rawlins: Wow.

Nancy Tobler: Right. That’s transformational leadership. That’s cool stuff. That gives you goosebumps.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: That’s the thing that makes network marketing kind of fun.

We want to be transformed and we need to get stuff done

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. And so, you talked about being able to exist without a transformational leader. Do you… Can you do the same without a day-to-day leader.

Nancy Tobler: I don’t think so. I don’t have any research on it, but I think you’ve got to have somebody who’s…

We call them the “behind the scenes” person who keeps you on track. Makes sure product gets shipped. Makes sure orders are taken.

Kenny Rawlins: That certainly goes along with my experience. A lot of times you have that person that’s transformational and is the person out [front] with the vision. But I’ve always seen that if… And honestly more often than not I’ve seen them be two different people.

Nancy Tobler: Right. It is.

Kenny Rawlins: That person tends to be the creative visionary and that there’s always the someone behind the scenes that’s…

Nancy Tobler: That’s their feet on the ground.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah and is making sure that they are pushing things forward.

Nancy Tobler: Right. It’s often two people.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah and I think that that can sometimes be almost like you said a lot of people have in their mind the stereotype of what a leader is or isn’t.

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: And I think that can be damaging in some ways because it takes a lot of different types of people to move forward.

Nancy Tobler: It’s much broader.

Kenny Rawlins: Yes. Exactly.

Outstanding leadership is more than showmanship

Nancy Tobler: It’s much broader than that person on the stage that’s so outgoing and over the top.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: It’s a lot of things that makes that one person work. And I would call them all leaders.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Right. They’re doing leadership behaviors whether or not they’re called a leader or not. I don’t care.

Kenny Rawlins: Right. Yeah. Sometimes you hear like “Are you a manager or are you a leader?” Right? And I think that people cut it kind of in that like transformational versus day-to-day.

But you’re right I think especially the ones who are good at it—the day-to-day leadership—really can be leaders. Right? And make a big difference.

Nancy Tobler: Oh yeah, I—that 5 percent growth every year.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: Right. That’s day-to-day leadership. People who put one foot in front of the other every day. They get out of bed. They come to work. They make sure products deployed.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: They make sure it’s out the door.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah.

Nancy Tobler: It’s huge. And even though the vision might be “the products going to be different in 12 months” and you’ve got people working on that new vision, you still have people who have to march to the tune and keep things moving forward and…

Kenny Rawlins: Well yeah, make sure the lights are on.

Nancy Tobler: Making sure the lights are on. Make sure the lights are paid for. All those things. Has to happen.

Leaders make the world go round!

Kenny Rawlins: Well this has been fascinating and they appreciate you coming on and talking about it, because it is one of these topics that…

First of all, there’s a ton of information out there about it.

But it is one of those things—especially in network marketing—I’ve heard it talked about my entire life. Right? Leadership and leadership training.

And I think it is good to discuss a little bit of history but then discuss what people can do to improve their leadership and also understand the importance of it and the role of it.

So, I appreciate you coming on today.

Nancy Tobler: Yeah leaders matter. That that’s the end. I mean right? That’s the big picture. They matter. Yeah.

You have to have them.

Organizations just kind of go willy nilly. They’re not organized. That’s what the problem is.

So, they’re necessary in all organizations.

Kenny Rawlins: Yeah. And I remember one time, an experience I had at a youth—it was a church thing—a youth camp that I was a part of.

We were doing a large group activity. It was just chaos.

And there finally was one person in the group that kinda stood up and exerted themselves. Not in a way that created resentment but in a way that got some organization to the task.

And it really stood out to me just the power of somebody who can bring a group of people together, bring a little bit of organization to it.

Like you say. Without that there’s chaos. Right?

Nancy Tobler: Yeah.

Kenny Rawlins: And I also I do think that people can grow into leaders. I’ve seen it. And so, I think it is an important topic to discuss.

If you’re not getting what you need, get creative

Nancy Tobler: I guess the other thing to remember too is that not all leaders have to look the same.

Kenny Rawlins: Right.

Nancy Tobler: That there isn’t one magic way to become an effective leader. Yeah and if you’re working with a mentor that doesn’t jive with you, then find another mentor. Yeah.

I don’t know how easy that is in a downline situation, but in an organization, if it doesn’t fit with you, then there’s another mentor out there that can help you grow.

Kenny Rawlins: Well that is one way that I would hope that network marketing can really thrive because you’ve got such a large network. You’ve got an entire upline.

Nancy Tobler: Yeah. True.

Kenny Rawlins: And I think people who are being mentors need to look at it and say, “look not everyone’s going to click with me and that’s not a bad thing.”

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: Part of the job of being a leader is helping someone find who can help them develop.

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: So, I would hope that the uplines are helping their downlines. Saying, “Hey, for whatever reason, this isn’t working. Here’s someone else you can work with.”.

Nancy Tobler: Right.

Kenny Rawlins: So.

Nancy Tobler: I agree.

Kenny Rawlins: All right well thank you, Nancy.

Nancy Tobler: Okay. Thank You!

Kenny Rawlins: We’ll enjoy talking to you next time.

Nancy Tobler: OK. Great.

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